Curse

Missing HB · Mar 18, 2011, 08:46 AM // 08:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Honestly, I still don't think that the blood necro nerf is going to be enough. It'll stop ridiculous things like quad necro being driven by a Consume Soul blood necro, but that's about it. There are currently playable eliteless bars that do a comparably good job as the Crip Anguish variant at both being a split threat and 8v8.

Pretty much what was my idea when i looked at the update.... Almost all isn't going to be enough... It might do stuff on GvG when fight last long , but about other formats, it won't do anything ( people will still run same builds sin those formats without caring of duration , etc....)

I think it's time to get serious content update instead of some random " take OP bar- nerf all 8 skills " update..

Also , i don't get the point of attenuments change , can someone explain me why it was needed ??

AndrewSX · Mar 18, 2011, 09:05 AM // 09:05

It was just a suspect, but now is sure. Anet must have something against eles.

The cast/recharge time of Attunements was ridicoulous, and they've changed it a bit after years of player discussion about it. It's a nonsense that Attunements was in that way till yesterday(5+year of game).

And then, to be "balanced", they added the Invoke damage reduction. Wtf, eles have 3 skill split pvp/pve, and invoke was almost the only solid damage choice in pve right now(using air obviously). Great job Anet. Nerf AP and ER now, come on!

Dervish Pvp balance aren't a surprise. At least this should stop the numbers 3 derv+1 backline RA team. That sometimes wipe better balanced teams, lol.

For anyone will pointing it: this is a PVP update, which is good, but Anet can't balance one aspect of the game w/o think about conseguence on the other. There's a thing called " PvP/PvE skill split". Use it Anet.

bhavv · Mar 18, 2011, 10:07 AM // 10:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

These balances aren't for PvE. They're also not split because no one in PvE cares about them anyway.

Do you mean that about all of the changes that are being made or just about the blood magic changes.

You seriously dont mean to say that no one in PVE cares about ellys I hope.

Bristlebane · Mar 18, 2011, 10:46 AM // 10:46

The new Signet of Suffering is too weak, I doubt people will use it when there are better elites. Compare to the updated Barbed Signet:

Barbed Signet is non-elite and provide bleeding on multiple targets.
Signet of Suffering is elite and provide bleeding on a single target.
The small sacrifice on Barbed Signet, and shorter recharge on Signet of Suffering won't have much impact.

Suggestion:
Promote bar compression, making Signet of Suffering an elite version of Barbed Signet with a conditional life steal component.

Signet of Suffering: changed attribute to Blood Magic; decreased recharge to 10 seconds; decreased casting time to 1 second; changed functionality to: "The next 1..2 Necromancer skill(s) that targets a foe causes Bleeding for 1...13...10 seconds to all nearby foes. You steal 10..50 health from foes already suffering from a condition."

Xenomortis · Mar 18, 2011, 11:41 AM // 11:41

This update has a minor effect on PvE. Don't moan too much - it's clearly a PvP update and there's nothing wrong with that; poor skill balances hurt PvP much more and much faster than they do PvE.
Barbed Signet had very little, if any use and Signet of Suffering had even less. I can think of a potential use for the proposed Barbed.
Invoke is a small nerf, but ultimately won't change much - Eles trying to push for damage with that elite already suck, all this does is weaken a potential hero. You're looking at 10 less damage but a shorter recharge.
Consume Soul hurts people trying to do Mallyx.

*lemming* · Mar 18, 2011, 11:45 AM // 11:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Do you mean that about all of the changes that are being made or just about the blood magic changes.

You seriously dont mean to say that no one in PVE cares about ellys I hope.

I was under the impression that people finally realized how bad eles were for damage in PvE. I suppose that your point is valid, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bristlebane

The new Signet of Suffering is too weak, I doubt people will use it when there are better elites. Compare to the updated Barbed Signet:

Barbed Signet is non-elite and provide bleeding on multiple targets.
Signet of Suffering is elite and provide bleeding on a single target.
The small sacrifice on Barbed Signet, and shorter recharge on Signet of Suffering won't have much impact.

Suggestion:
Promote bar compression, making Signet of Suffering an elite version of Barbed Signet with a conditional life steal component.

Signet of Suffering: changed attribute to Blood Magic; decreased recharge to 10 seconds; decreased casting time to 1 second; changed functionality to: "The next 1..2 Necromancer skill(s) that targets a foe causes Bleeding for 1...13...10 seconds to all nearby foes. You steal 10..50 health from foes already suffering from a condition."

You're kidding, right?

Whirl E Vic · Mar 18, 2011, 01:04 PM // 13:04

Hmmm...
Get those minions out of my forest

psycore · Mar 18, 2011, 01:44 PM // 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whirl E Vic

Hmmm...
Get those minions out of my forest

Exactly. I'm currently working my way through the Kurzick title and the change to consume soul is going to heavily effect minion / summon heavy builds (which is mostly what people run these days in PvE) in Morostav.

Consume Soul: changed functionality to: "Elite Spell. You steal 5...49...60 Health from target foe. All hostile summoned creatures in the area of that foe take 25...105...125 damage."

2 of the wardens and all your summons / minions are gone.

Hugh Manatee · Mar 18, 2011, 02:29 PM // 14:29

In PvE if you must run air you still have orb (and hammer) if you want single target damage, it was faster and punched harder then invoke anyway.

Invoke sucked already in PvE because it only hits 3 guys(and most other air skills weren't that great, being single or limited target hits), I can do better spamming the vanguard wards with earth or fire knockdown AoE and snowstorm and/or rodgorts+intense with utility in the rest of my bar and a big spike damage on another guy(with earthbind somewhere in the party for giatns and such). They need to make it hit all nearby and crack armor(in pve) if they're going to kill the damage that much.

In fact, most air stuff needs to be AoE for it to be worth using over earth or fire, or even water in pve. Surge needs to be an aoe hex, as does glimmer, Gust needs to hit all adjacent and lose the requirement of an earth or water hex for a bonus if they are hexed. Arc lightning needs to hit all nearby foes hexed with water, chilling winds needs to do like glimmer, be a constant DPS for it's duration in addition to extending water hexes. There's lots of unused skills in other atts they can rework to buff damage in pve without messing with e-storage. Swirling Aura, Magnetic Aura, Elemental Flame, Iron Mist could all be changed into a damage boosting, BuH like functionality in PvE, Second wind, Glyph of essence, elemental lord, Glyph of Energy, and maybe ether prodigy could be functionally changed to boost damage or be otherwise useful.

The necro and derv stuff, who didn't see it coming really. I don't RA as much as I used to, but like every other round there was a blood necro with barb sig and it seems pretty strong, and their elites were random fillers, I can see them taking suffering with oppresive. What it does is give you the conditions all at once, that's why it hurts and synced well with oppressive and virulence, with the new barbed you get a chance to erase it that's why it's not elite.

Im surprised they're not nerfing lyssa's haste... it's an instant interrupt you can cst on the move, twice...I don't know if folks understand how badass it is yet... or avatar of lyssa for that matter... remember fear me?

Bristlebane · Mar 18, 2011, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by psycore

2 of the wardens and all your summons / minions are gone.

True that.. hm, looking at Wardens of Seasons attribute points it would be quite a big difference between NM and HM:

Normal Mode:
"You steal 5 Health from target foe. All hostile summoned creatures in the area of that foe take 25 damage."

Hard Mode:
"You steal 64 Health from target foe. All hostile summoned creatures in the area of that foe take 132 damage."

I guess there's few counters to this...
1. Start each pull with Signet of Humility, targeting Wardens of Seasons, todisable their elite. If 2 wardens, at least you reduced the damage by half.
2. Death Nova all your minions and send them in, hoping Consume Soul will kill them and trigger massive damage. Then Aura of the Lich for a new fresh minions.
3. Atrophy, reducing their Soul Reaping to 0 so they only cause 25 area damage to summons.

Jeydra · Mar 18, 2011, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Invoke is a small nerf, but ultimately won't change much - Eles trying to push for damage with that elite already suck, all this does is weaken a potential hero. You're looking at 10 less damage but a shorter recharge.

Invoke change is going to affect PvE alright, although I agree the effects aren't going to be that major, it's a nerf regardless (unlike a nerf to, say, Watchful Healing).

The point is that having 10 less damage with a shorter recharge is a nerf however you look at it. Invoke Lightning's DPS isn't [insert damage]/8, just like Discord's DPS isn't 105/3. More damage with longer recharge opens up more time to cast other spells like Lightning Orb and Chain Lightning, something less damage with shorter recharge doesn't do.

The nerf to the potential hero is also a definite one. See, if you need a ranged hero that does damage but can spare both the secondary profession and attribute points to bring some other skills, you'd be looking at a rather short list:

The standard minion bomber can usually do this, although it can't take Restoration heals. You can only run one minion bomber at a time.
The standard SoS Rit can do this. You can only run one SoS Rit at a time.
A Mesmer can do it, but you only have 2 Mesmers.
You could rely on a Necro, but non-MM Necro damage output is quite weak.

Which leaves Elementalist heroes, and clearly the best damage option with Elementalist heroes is Invoke Lightning. It may be a hero option, but a nerf it is. It affects an entire niche, not a single hero build. Considering how weak Elementalists already are anyway, I don't like the Invoke Lightning change in PvE.

FoxBat · Mar 18, 2011, 04:18 PM // 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Which leaves Elementalist heroes, and clearly the best damage option with Elementalist heroes is Invoke Lightning.

How is it "clearly" better than searing flames? Burning and spammability on more foes do a lot more for you than 25% AP.

Xenomortis · Mar 18, 2011, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

How is it "clearly" better than searing flames? Burning and spammability on more foes do a lot more for you than 25% AP.

Did you not read the second paragraph of Jeydra's post?
To get mileage out of Searing Flames you need to spam it. Whatever you cast has either got to be Searing Flames or something that allows you to continue spamming it (i.e. energy management).
A single cast does little and what's worse is that subsequent casts can do less.

Ranger Jaap · Mar 18, 2011, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Why fevered dreams? It's not like its overused/overpowered

Skyy High · Mar 18, 2011, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewSX

It was just a suspect, but now is sure. Anet must have something against eles.

The cast/recharge time of Attunements was ridicoulous, and they've changed it a bit after years of player discussion about it. It's a nonsense that Attunements was in that way till yesterday(5+year of game).

Yes, they clearly hate you so much, they decided to do something you've been asking for for years.

So. Much. Hate. Over. 10. Damage. OMG. You guys really want them to be splitting skills for a measly 10 damage? That's not going to be the difference in how fast you kill something in PvE, and what's this, now you'll be able to use it on the same group twice before your frontline has killed everything? Madness!

UnChosen · Mar 18, 2011, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

Yes, they clearly hate you so much, they decided to do something you've been asking for for years.

So. Much. Hate. Over. 10. Damage. OMG. You guys really want them to be splitting skills for a measly 10 damage? That's not going to be the difference in how fast you kill something in PvE, and what's this, now you'll be able to use it on the same group twice before your frontline has killed everything? Madness!

People had been asking for attunements to be made into a skill, increase damage, drastically reduced cooldown (enough so it can compete with Soul Reaping / Expertise / Mysticism)...and uninterruptibility. 1 second is still easily interrupted by PvE mobs and being locked out for 30 seconds isn't anything better than being locked out for 45 seconds.

What annoys people is not the 10 damage, its the fact that they didn't even bother to split the skill when the class as whole is grasping for any sort of decent damage to begin with. If Fevered Dreams got a split, then invoke definitely should get one also.

As for the frontline thing...my frontline and everyone else kills a group (or at least 90% of it) in less than 7 seconds. So, yeah, madness indeed.

inscribed · Mar 18, 2011, 06:50 PM // 18:50

I'm still holding out hope for an elementalist rebalance in a future update. Elementalists have been one of the worst classes for damage dealing since the game released, when they should be one of the best. Exhaustion, for example, just needs to be done with completely. Its a useless game mechanic as its implemented now.

AndroBubbles · Mar 18, 2011, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by gooeydark

1. It's Signet of Suffering, not Signet of Corruption.

2. There is no other midline template as powerful as a blood necro, regardless of whether its free elite utility slot is taken away or not. There is no debate about this whatsoever.

I tried to reinforce this in a previous post, as did Lemming, but I feel like I have to point it out again for most of the other posters here.

This

was

a

PvP

balance

update.

1. Freak out more over a mistype. If you had read every single post in this thread like you expect everybody else to, you would have seen that I used the correct skill name in my first response to this thread.

2. The update still seems a bit pointless to me, though I guess I'll wait to see what they change on the necro bar to compensate. Instead of nerfing the bleeding source, they should have toned down the skills that are so powerful because of it.

3. Freak out some more.

Skyy High · Mar 18, 2011, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

What annoys people is not the 10 damage, its the fact that they didn't even bother to split the skill when the class as whole is grasping for any sort of decent damage to begin with. If Fevered Dreams got a split, then invoke definitely should get one also.

Ah, but that's exactly it, they didn't bother to split the skill because 10 damage isn't worth splitting. I had no idea that a nerf this small could really stir up so many people into frothing rage about deleting their ele!

Give me a screenshot where some mob gets healed back from less than 10 health, and then simultaneously molests your child and your wife while giving you the finger and throwing up devil horns, and these reactions might be warranted.

@inscribed: You picked possibly the worst example for your point possible. Exhaustion is excellent at what it does: gently restrict powerful ele spells to the ele primary profession, since energy storage lets them ignore exhaustion for the most part. That's why it's there, for the same reason that so many ranger skills cost ridiculous amounts of energy (but Expertise makes it all ok).

UnChosen · Mar 18, 2011, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

Ah, but that's exactly it, they didn't bother to split the skill because 10 damage isn't worth splitting. I had no idea that a nerf this small could really stir up so many people into frothing rage about deleting their ele!

Give me a screenshot where some mob gets healed back from less than 10 health, and then simultaneously molests your child and your wife while giving you the finger and throwing up devil horns, and these reactions might be warranted.

And Fevered Dream is worth splitting? No mesmers I know use that skill...at all. If I want to spread conditioned I would've already abused FD's effecting in the first 5 seconds.

The key is that they should've splitted the skill and then increase the damage it does in PvE because the unnerfed version wasn't that great to begin with.